He has already been identified as a lead prospect for O&M India's national creative director's post - by none other than the agency's current NCD & group president, Piyush Pandey. Unofficially, of course. Officially, Sonal Dabral is managing director & national creative director, Ogilvy Malaysia, which he joined back in 2000, after spending time in Lintas India (Lowe) and O&M India. In three short years, the NID graduate has powered Ogilvy Malaysia into a position of creative strength not only in that region, but also within the Ogilvy network. Today, Malaysia is among the top 15 O&M offices in the world. In this exclusive interview with N. Shatrujeet of agencyfaqs!, Dabral talks about his move to Malaysia, creativity in the region, and why he thinks Indian creatives and clients "are in danger of becoming myopic"…

Q. Why did you choose to move out of India and accept the creative director's post at Ogilvy Malaysia? What motivated you to look for opportunities beyond our borders?

A. First, let me say that I was extremely comfortable in Bombay (now Mumbai) - maybe too comfortable. We were a great team producing great work. We were riding high, and I was content. I guess I didn't go out looking for opportunities. Opportunities came looking for me. (O&M) Malaysia was looking to raise the creative standards, and a lot of people had faith in me. Neil French, thinking I was the man for the job, sought me out. Piyush (Pandey), Ranjan (Kapur) and Neil were gracious enough to leave the decision to me - and let me tell you it was a tough one. One drunken evening, my mind was made up. I decided to leave my big, warm, comfy chair.

Q. Did your decision to leave India have anything to do with a feeling that, perhaps, the creative environment in India was not too conducive for great work to happen? That a more 'mature' advertising market might offer you greater opportunities to flex the creative muscle?

A. Not at all. By the time I left India, we (O&M India) had already begun to shine and make an impression on the international scene. I knew we could make a difference even in India. I didn't even think of Malaysia as a more mature market where I could find better opportunities to, as you say, 'flex my creative muscle'. I just saw it as a different market, a different pitch to play on. Call it the charm of the unknown, call it an urge to seek expansion of the mind, or my innate belief in playing with danger. I decided to move. The truth is that I was a little scared by the prospect, so I decided to confront that fear. As I always do.

Q. What were your expectations out of Malaysia vis-à-vis the work environment, creativity etc?

A. I didn't have any expectations, per se. I just took a plane ride to an exciting new place. I took with me only what I take to any new place - curiosity, a dogged determination and the confidence to excel at whatever is put in front of me.

Q. Okay, so what were the broad advertising challenges that you came across during your early days at Ogilvy Malaysia? What were the socio-cultural handicaps you faced with regard to advertising?

A. Challenges there were aplenty. I inherited a department roughly a third of the size of my Bombay team, so it was a case of making sure we were tight as a team. I guess that initial bonding was the first challenge. In terms of local challenges, Malaysia has many rules and regulations on what can be shown in advertising. My particular favorite is the 'armpit challenge' - that is, you can't show any. We also have M.I.M. (Made in Malaysia) rules, which state that any TV commercial aired in Malaysia must be made in Malaysia. Talent has to be Malaysian, and this cuts down your talent pool somewhat. These restrictions rather than getting in the way, simply made me think a little harder. I recently directed a hair commercial for Dove featuring a lady wearing a 'tudung', a traditional headscarf. A shampoo commercial with not a single strand of hair shown! It worked like magic.

Q. You are credited for having put Ogilvy Malaysia on the world advertising map. Tell us something about how the last two-three years have been for Ogilvy Malaysia - both in business and creativity terms? In Malaysia, where does Ogilvy stand in the agency pecking order?

A. I think it's fair to say that the Idea God has been kind to us… the Passion Goddess too. The team here is young and hungry to do great work. I simply make sure that I don't get in the way of that. My role as creative boss is to make sure the fire in their bellies is always stoked and never goes out. Our philosophy is to do the very best on everything we touch, regardless of the size and importance of the client. We owe that much to the brands and the clients. Our reputation for effective work precedes us, and we are reaping the benefits of that in terms of pitch invitations, and more often than not, account wins. We're proud to have brought home Malaysia's first One Show Gold Pencil as well as the country's first D&AD entry.

It tickles me to think that we have put Malaysia on the advertising map, as I really didn't know where the place was until I landed here. According to Campaign Brief's rankings, we are No 1 in this market, and Tenth in the whole region. We also managed to get into the top 15 global Ogilvy offices in terms of creativity. The last time I checked we were No 2 - and it hurtz!

Needless to say, we'll try harder.

Q. Speaking about last year's One Show Pencil, tell us more about the winning Matchbox campaign?

A. The work was executed for Mattel - a poster campaign for Matchbox. Although, visually each poster was very different, the central theme held it all together. The big idea is all about re-interpreting our world in accordance to these little toy vehicles. Hence, one concept featured a worm as road kill. Another had a police car, hidden behind a picture frame, waiting for the next traffic offender. And finally, a street-sign that read: '0.05 kph'. Einstein said, 'Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.' I love that quote. All the ideas in the campaign are very simple, but we didn't make them simpler. It was cheeky, fun and above all, very true to what Matchbox is all about.

Q. While comparisons are odious, can you tell us what are the key differences between creativity as it is practiced in South East Asia and as it is practiced in India?

A. Since you refer to comparisons as odious, I won't make any here. I can however share my observations.

I have noticed that in South East Asia, the perspective is more global in terms of ideas and craft skills, perhaps because people have come from all walks of life from all across the world to practice their art here. Whereas Indian advertising is by Indians for Indians, and I guess that affects the look of the work. Having said that, two examples that diffuse that argument are the Times of India films by Prasoon (Pandey) and the anti-smoking print ad by big brother Piyush, with brilliant art direction by Rajeev Rao. I think anyone reading this should look at that work and ask themselves this question - could either of them have been crafted any better outside of India? I think not.

And while you are interrogating yourselves, ask another - are you crafting your ideas as well as that? I fear not.

Q. A look at the Cannes list or the Gunn Report shows that quite a few agencies/offices in South East Asia are hugely creative. What, in your opinion, makes South East Asia a creative hotbed?

A. Building on my last answer, a global perspective means originating ideas that cross borders, cross cultures and cross languages of which, in this part of the world, there are many. I think the crafting of ideas in this region is truly world class and rates highly when compared to what I was exposed to in India. In terms of the creative powerhouses in this part of the world, there are Ogilvy Singapore, BBDO Manila, Results Bangkok, Saatchi Bangkok… and, of course, Ogilvy Malaysia.

Q. To what extent does the maturity of these markets enable creativity? And to what extent does the West's understanding of the region's advertising idiom help at international award shows.

A. I think it's less about the maturity of the market and more about maturity of minds. We have in the region some excellent minds, which are helping and allowing this tear-away work to see the light of day. So I don't agree with the assumption that it's the West's understanding of the region's advertising idiom that helps at international award shows. What help at these international award shows are fresh, surprising and insightful ideas. And ideas don't have a nationality. Proof of this is right there in India.

Look at the Fevicol bus commercial (and I hate to use an Ogilvy example again, as I'm beginning to sound biased). The film is set in Rajasthan, uses a completely Indian idiom, yet, is understood by people the world over and was awarded accordingly. The Indian idiom helped the look, but at the core of it was a simple brilliant idea. Take the Peugeot 'sculptor' ad (not from Ogilvy). It originated in Milan, was directed by a Dutchman for a French client and aimed at a Western market. Where did they set the story? India. What idiom did they use? An Indian one. Take John West 'bear fight' ad (again not from Ogilvy). We don't have grizzly bears or salmon runs, but I defy anyone in India not to understand it and be moved by it. When we do not win big internationally because of lame ideas, we say, 'Oh, the jury didn't understand the local insight or the local idiom.' Very convenient. So let me propose a new theory: There are no idioms, just great ideas.

Q. The West sees South East Asia, Greater China, Korea and Japan as emerging regions of creative excellence. Where do you think Indian advertising fits in?

A. I think Indian advertising is beginning to rear its head. India is becoming part of the global advertising community. It can only get better as long as we keep asking one simple question, one that doesn't hide behind funny-sounding taglines and hackneyed local slang: "Boy, where's the big idea?"

Q. What do you have to say about ideas such as 'Surf Excel hai na!', Pepsodent 'Dishum-dishum' and 'Thanda matlab Coca-Cola'? Although none are likely to impress international award juries, wouldn't you agree that it's the kind of advertising that clients need in India.

A. This is like saying that since kabbadi is very popular in India, I'll keep playing kabbadi and never look at any other sport. Why are we limiting ourselves? Why can't we come up with ideas that become a model for the work worldwide.

To illustrate, let's take the examples you mention. I'm asking myself a question right now. Are they the best ideas that could have been conceived? And yet another: are they ideas to begin with? Let's play a game. Let's translate them: 'Surf Excel hai na!' 'Surf Excel is there, no!' Great, big deal. 'Dishum-Dishum Pepsodent.' 'Punch-Punch Pepsodent.' Very interesting. How many times do you want to hear that?

'Thanda Matlab Coke.' 'A cold drink is Coca-Cola'. Yes, I appreciate that this line and this concept that Aamir (Khan) came up with is an interesting one, but is it just a clever use of language, or is it a strong idea based on a solid insight. You be the judge. I attribute the success of this campaign to two things. Aamir's brilliant performance, and the fact that Pepsi seems to have lost its way. Coke, which, in the past, was not able to connect with the consumer at all, at least spoke her language for the first time. They are all popular slogans, but just slogans cannot make up for lack of big ideas. If an idea is so dependent on language, then is it an idea to begin with? We just need to be a bit careful because I am getting a feeling that Indian creatives and clients alike are in danger of becoming myopic. Frankly, the brands deserve better, and the sooner we get away from this, the better it will be for everyone, least not the browbeaten consumer.

Q. You have partnered Piyush in quite a few long-standing campaigns such as Cadbury Dairy Milk, Asian Paints and Le Sancy. Can you recount your experiences working with Piyush? How much of that came in handy in Malaysia?

A. Piyush began as a boss, but soon became a friend, a brother and a mentor I have huge respect for. I had a lot of fun working with him. We would find humour in the most ridiculous and banal situations. We would crack the most stupid puns in the straightest of meetings, and would come up with cracking ideas in the most strange locations, be it over tea at six in the morning or over copious amounts of RC and soda in the wee hours.

One of the more bizarre moments with him was at Cannes two years back. Predictably, we are drinking. He turns, glass in hand and a mad glint in his eyes, and says, 'I see a dead horse.' The rest is anti-smoking history. How does my time with him help in Malaysia? Let's just say we both have mobile phones and very big phone bills.

Q. Piyush has gone on record (on agencyfaqs!) saying that you are his "worthy successor", and that the national creative director's chair awaits you in Mumbai, if you decide to shift back. Reactions please?

A. When the hottest creative in Asia says that about you, all I can say is that I am a very lucky guy. And you really are trying to put this lucky guy on the spot here.

In all honesty, I think that whoever takes over (from Piyush) has very big shoes to fill… and er… I am reminded of a saying from cowboy folklore: If 'yer find 'yerself in a hole, stop diggin'.

May 05, 2003
Mumbai
You can write to Sonal Dabral at