We're all very nice. I've decided I don't want to be a gentleman anymore.

She started her career as a trainee at HTA in 1985. And in her first year at the agency, she won a CAG (Best Press Ad of the Year) for Air-India. But just when it looked as if she was set for bigger things, she took a long sabbatical. "My daughter was born, so I just had to," she says. "People said my career was over. But I thought it was the campaign of my life. I could get back to advertising, but I could never rewind the years when she was growing up." Meet Deepa Kakkar, the woman who seems to know a thing or two about priorities. And as vice-president and executive creative director at HTA (she returned to HTA in 1990, and became creative chief of HTA's Mumbai office in 1999), Kakkar's priority seems to be turning the agency's creative product around, in partnership with Ivan Arthur, national creative director. And she makes this amply clear in this interview with N. Shatrujeet of agencyfaqs!

Edited Excerpts

First of all, let me say that nobody likes the boy who comes first in class. People will say he's a nerd, a bookworm… that he just isn't fun. Ditto the case in this industry. I just feel, because we're the biggest - and I'm really not saying we're the best in terms of the creative product; we need to get there - and that we're right up there, we do get a bashing, every now and then.

However, despite what people might say about our creativity, we take great pride in the fact that we have built, and we will continue to build the biggest brands in this country. Make a list of India's most powerful brands, and there is no question about which is India's best agency.

I know a lot of people in advertising who keep telling me, 'What is this, Deepa? How can you make such advertising?' But I keep telling them one thing… As a kid, I remember there used to be a sticker stuck behind a Fiat car that read, 'When I grow up, I'll be a Volvo.' I can bet that every agency in this country must have, at some point or another, told itself, 'When I grow up, I'll be HTA.' I refuse to believe that people don't want to grow.

No. We at HTA would like to emulate the creative standards of some people who have really managed to lead with the creative product. And to my mind, that's the focus. I would like to put the scoop on the other side of the cone now and say that we will get our creative product right, and we will lead from there.

The base is set. We know the business. We know how to build brands. Now we've got to take the leap in terms of creative. I am under no delusions about the fact that we have to get the product right.

First of all, I don't think we've ever wanted to be creative just for the sake of being creative. In advertising, everything is commissioned creativity. It has to be 'intelligent' creative. It has to be creative that gets noticed, but also one that gets linked back to the brand. It can't be a dumb blonde. It has to be one that engages the consumer in a conversation.

I actually call it the 'oyster principle'. The way the pearl comes from inside the oyster, the most enduring ideas come from the product. I think KitKat's 'Have a break…' is a great example of 'intelligent creative'. The idea of a 'break' was latent in the product, and was leveraged so beautifully.

Again, the Pears 'kuch nahin' campaign we did two years ago. The idea again came from the product. It's a transparent soap with nothing in it - 'nothing' that harms your skin. That's the kind of intelligent creative we'd like to do. Not the kind that one sees only in the archives or gets talked about only at award functions.

Fevikwik is, in fact, my all-time favourite. Because, I just feel the whole 'fishing rod' film is great. Normally, you have the 'product section' simply bunged into films. But in this film, the product is woven into the script in such a charming manner… You take the brand out of the script and you don't have a film. For me that's the test of creativity. And I'm sure it's working very well in the marketplace.

I have a great deal of respect for Piyush (Pandey). I admire what he's done. And he's not just done it for O&M, but for the industry, as a whole. I know there is a lot of talk about 'Oh, they're just creative, and who knows whether it's working or not.' I just feel that by being creative, O&M has broken clutter. And by breaking clutter, they've at least put their brands on the consumer's consideration set. And to me, getting a brand into the consideration set - so that the consumer inquires about the brand - is advertising that works. Now whether the consumer ultimately buys it or not depends on many things. But advertising has fulfilled its basic job. That's why I believe O&M's brand of creative is working.

I think it is an important point to discuss O&M here. Piyush will always admit that Ranjan (Kapur) has been the force behind O&M's creative surge. So, I think, it is very important for an agency's manager or CEO to believe in the creative product. That is half your battle won. When that happens, you know with such backing, the product can only get better.

In that sense, what has happened here in HTA is that, Mike (Khanna) has said, in no uncertain terms, that the product is going to be important. So that change has happened.

I can't really put a finger to it, but it was definitely articulated some two-and-a-half years ago, where we said we've got everything in place - strategy, billing… We now need to turn the product around. This simply happened because we realize that clients come to us not to get to know marketing better or strategy better. They come to us for creative solutions to their marketing problems. So yes, there is a definite focus to change.

In terms of planning… yes, planning is very strong in HTA. But, as a creative person, I think planning's role ends at the brief. Planning has to be creative in the brief - the insight and the analysis of that insight has to be such that creative can take a leap and fly. But I don't think planning should interfere with the creative. Planning comes with a lot of intelligence and a lot of logic. But that should help creative like a springboard; it shouldn't clip the wings. I will not - at least as far as I can help it - let planning interfere or pass judgement on creative. That much I am clear about. And that will manifest and show in the product.

It also depends on how strong the creative person is. How much he or she can put the foot down, both internally, and with clients. There are a whole lot of gentlemen here in HTA… I think that's the other thing. We're all very nice. I've decided I don't want to be a gentleman anymore. If I had to make an internal presentation, the first slide would say, 'The party is over.' We really mean business now, and we're really going to put all our energies behind turning the product.

I am the first person to admit that planning is a very critical element in the advertising process. The whole creative process is like a relay race. Planning, servicing, media, creative… all have an equal role to play. But the last lap is always run by creative. Creative always breasts the tape, as it's the work that always gets noticed. Which is why creative has to take the lead. Creative cannot be expected to run the last lap being tied down to something. The others have done their bit in taking the baton and running - which is also very critical. But having done that, they cannot tell the last runner how to run.

Planning must show creative the destination. But I will make my own map to get there. And that's the thrill of the creative adventure. So that is what I shall try and ensure happens. Because I think it is time for creative to really get into its own at HTA.

And I do feel that with Mike being so gung-ho about the product - I have his complete support and backing - we'll get there.

It's not easy because we're very big, as an agency. And the most important thing about HTA is that we have to change attitudes. People have to start thinking differently. Things like, 'Yes, the product is most important' and 'My brownie points will come out of what I think is great creative, and not so much from what the client will buy.' I think that attitudinal shift has started happening over the last two years. And I think it'll only get better. Now once that happens - and we've got new blood into the system - I'm sure it'll be more visible.

In fact, it is already visible. HTA was the Agency of the Year at this year's Calcutta Ad Club. Again, HTA's Chennai office was the Agency of the Year at the Chennai Ad Club. And to top it, our Bangalore office was the runner-up. We're getting there.

I have only this to say about the old product - it was too right. According to me, everything we did was right; there was nothing wrong. As I say, it was vanilla ice cream. You can't get wrong with vanilla ice cream. It always works. But you need the chocolate sauce, you need the toppings, the nuts… But vanilla is a great base.

I am in no way saying we were wrong, if you know what I mean. What I am saying is, to start with, we have a damn solid base, which any agency will give their right arm for. That's why we have creative people from other creative agencies coming to us - to learn what advertising is all about. It's a different kettle of fish. So vanilla is a great base. But I think we now need to add all the toppings.

The attitudinal shift in thinking, for one. And Sunil Gupta, who was manager here earlier, had a great role to play in that. He was very supportive. He was the one who said that brownie points should not come just out of what the client buys, but also out of the quality of that creative. Earlier, if the client bought the creative, you came back and said, 'It was a great meeting.' But was it great creative? See, most of the time, clients buy safe work.

Another thing we did was a lot of creative workshops, where we called in people from our network. Like the global creative head of JWT would come in every six months. And India has become a very important part of the network in the Asia-Pacific region. So we have a lot of our people going overseas, working on brands, pitching for campaigns on a regional level… Last year, a couple of us went to London and did work on Close-up and detergents. That kind of interaction is happening. We are being exposed to the best processes. A lot of good exposure, really. For instance, a team from Mumbai went to Bangkok where they were pitching for StanChart. And our work won us the business.

Basically it's internal - the fact that creative matters and that you believe in creative, which is why you're in advertising. One thing I'm going to add is, yes, everyone is creative, but in their own respective fields. Because it's easy to pass judgement on a layout or a script. Planning has to be creative in terms of insights and how the brief is written. Servicing has to be creative in terms of how they push that work, and how to take that idea forward and make it work harder in the marketplace.

I agree there is never any argument over great creative. But I also believe that clients do tend to play safe. There may be things that the client likes very much, but he's scared. His logic is: 'Right now I'm doing something that is working damn well for me, so why should I rock the boat.' To that, all I say is, it might even get better, so why not?

In this context, I have to mention some clients here. Some of my biggest learnings have been from clients. One is JD Karkaria of Godrej, when I worked on the Godrej Puf campaign. Here was a client who just backed us to the hilt. He was so demanding, so passionate. Another was Sanjay Khosla, with whom I worked on Brooke Bond Red Label's 'Jiyo mere laal' campaign. I just presented it to him, and he said, 'I love it.' It rarely happens like this because there's a lot of logic that comes into play. And Vindi Banga, when years ago, we had to do a campaign for Close-up.

That time, I wasn't working on Levers. Now Vindi had asked for what you call 'path-breaking creative'. So Ivan (Arthur) came to me and asked me to try my hand. He knew I knew nothing about Close-up, but he told me that he'd use my scripts as "an excuse for madness". Now before we went for the presentation there was a big fight at the agency over my scripts - I had broken all the existing formats. I had retained the essential boy, girl and confidence bits, but the scripts were totally different from what we had ever done for the brand. The servicing guys said we cannot present this or we'll get sacked. Ivan stuck to his guns. So we presented the scripts. And at the end of the presentation, Vindi asked Ivan to meet him. And he asked why Close-up hadn't seen work like this before? I was amazed, for we had all along being second-guessing the client, which wasn't fair, really. The client is sometimes willing to take the leap, as long as it's on strategy.

Look, most agencies have two or three showcase clients. And it's always these brands that consistently win, across award functions. And get talked about.

And you must remember that we are the industry's favourite punching bag. We'll do good work, we'll win awards, but not many people would want to talk about it. And maybe we also haven't spoken about it like we should.

So, as long as you're saying Pepsi, Close-up and DeBeers, I'm happy.

Yes, you have to be consistent in producing great creative work. You might produce great work sporadically, but let's face it… public memory is short. So you have to be consistent. Also, once a standard is set, there is no going below that. And that is the responsibility of the creative person and the head of the agency.

Let me add that it doesn't happen all the time. Even though intentions might be honourable.

We've already implemented the way to stay in the lead. What both these agencies have done is to focus on the creative product. Nothing has changed, other than the focus on the product. It happened earlier at O&M you can see it happening now at Lowe. We're already in the lead as far as other things go. And now that we are putting systems into place to get our product right, we stay ahead.

It's all the vision of the man at the top. Vindi has always been one to ask for better, more creative solutions. He pushes his agencies to deliver more. And that is what you see today with all Lever agencies. We are all constantly being challenged.

For me, one big pointer of that change was when we went to Levers to present some recent work. During the presentation, Vindi looked straight at me and asked me what was it that I came up against when I came to Levers. He could have directed that question to anyone in servicing, but the fact that it was directed at a creative person told me something about the new thinking. And he told me that if I had an idea that I truly - truly - believed in, I should just walk in through his door. See what I mean?

I think we have done some good work for Levers. Like the 'kiss' commercial for Close-up, which even made front-page news. However, I think we've got to push ideas harder, and we've also got to put our foot down a lot more. We just have to be far more passionate about what we are presenting. And this is where servicing comes into play - equal fire in the belly.

With Lowe and O&M, I am quite sure the focus being on the product has helped. And we'll do it too. Incidentally, almost all the recent international awards that we've won have been for Levers. Close-up, Pears… In fact, at last year's Abby Awards, the 'Khajuraho' ad for Close-up won - unfortunately in the Unreleased category.

All I am saying is, our portfolio of 'rejected' work - which is bang on brief and well-thought strategy, but has taken the leap - is award-winning stuff. So the capability is there. We need to push now. Selling will have to play a big part. And that is where planning will have to back off, and servicing will have to play a more active role, after the creative is done. And I think creative has to be left alone when the process is happening. That is critical. And I think that is happening at Lowe and O&M.

It has started happening here. Like I said, I'm not a gentleman anymore. Neither am I a pushover. I will not take things lying down, and that, I think, is clear. Of course, I have my own way of putting my foot down. I can't be rude and nasty.

But let there be no doubts about our going after creativity. We've stayed quiet for far too long. We just have to get our scoop on the right side of the cone.